Devil’s Blogvocate: Should Chelsea Have Sold John Terry?
Chelsea are now four games into the new Premier League season and things have started well for Ancelotti. As 09/10 gathers pace, bridgeviews.co.uk and the chelseablog.org have teamed up to look back on the biggest debate of the summer: should Chelsea have sold John Terry? Here at chelseablog.org we argue yes, but click here for bridgeviews.co.uk’s arguments for keeping our captain.
Let’s have a look at why TheChelseaBlog thinks we could and probably should have cashed in on John Terry when we had the chance:
CONTRIBUTION
It goes without saying John Terry is widely regarded as Chelsea’s most important player – the glue that holds the team together if you like – and some would suggest he’s also our most committed player – isn’t he the one man you can count on to truly wear his heart on his sleeve after all? He’s a sore loser and there’s nothing wrong with that at all, surely we all want a captain who hates losing? But what about his tears in the face of defeat, is that also what every club wants from its captain or should a captain be the one man on the field who can keep his emotions in check long enough to actually be there for his team-mates?
What of his commitment in terms of play though, surely the fact that he’s always been the master of the last-ditch tackle or the crucial goal-line clearance at Chelsea should mean his contribution is worth its weight in gold? Maybe so, but then again, his gung-ho style of play comes at a price. Whilst we’ve all watched in awe as he’s thrown his body on the line (literally) for years, its become all too clear he’s started to pay the price for that in recent seasons – and is no doubt held personally responsible for the threadbare carpet outside the treatment room.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not suggesting he’s ready to be put out to pasture yet but you can’t argue his injuries have mounted up. To date, he’s injured his knee, his ankle, his hamstring, his foot, his shoulder, his cheekbone - and it’s widely rumoured he has treatment on his back after every game.
Last season – in contrast to the injury hit season before – John Terry managed an incredible 48 games, and yet you’d have to suspect that in the absence of Ricardo Carvalho, there’d have been a few of them where he’d have been pushing himself through the pain barrier to be on the field. Because that’s what JT does – time and again returns from injury way sooner than anyone expects him to and probably sooner than he’s advised to – and over time, as his own doctors have said themselves, that’s going to cost him.
Injuries aside though, what does JT give us as a player? He’s always been a solid defender for us but is he world class? No, I don’t believe he is. Is he the best centre-back in the Premier League? To be honest, I’d have to say he isn’t even the best centre-back at Chelsea. His total commitment, ability to read the game and defensive partnerships are often thought to cover his lack of pace. I’ve certainly wondered in the past whether Carvalho’s performances have provided a cover for JT’s weaknesses and having watched him without Carvalho for the vast majority of last season, it was apparent he wasn’t anywhere near the level we’d come to expect of him.
Whilst some might well argue against that (and indeed I’d expect them to), the fact is we actually win more games (68%) when JT isn’t playing, than when he is (64%). Not a huge difference granted, but a sign at least that we can actually live without him because even in the big games, for example, against Manchester United, Liverpool and Arsenal last season, we won just once and yet the Chelsea captain played all of those. So it can’t even be argued he’s necessarily a big game player – he definitely wasn’t regarded as one by most after Moscow anyway.
At 29, I just can’t see either John Terry’s performances or contribution improving over the next couple of years and whilst I’m not suggesting he hasn’t got a few good games in him, what I am suggesting is we’ve already had his best years.
THE DOSH
Earlier in the year – before it ever looked a possibility – TheChelseaBlog had a hypothetical look at why selling John Terry might not have been such a bad idea in financial terms.
Ok, so Roman Abramovich isn’t exactly broke but compare our most notable signings over the past couple of years (Anelka, Deco, Malouda, Bosingwa) to those that’d gone before (Robben, Lampard, Shevchenko, Ballack, Ashley Cole, Essien, Cech) and it’s hardly surprising this ‘marquee’ signing we’d heard so much about over the summer didn’t materialise. Instead, this summer’s transfer window has seen us bring in Sturridge, Zhirkov and Turnball, whilst football’s latest big spenders have lashed out on players like Tevez, Adebayor, Gareth Barry and after a lot of argy-bargy, Joleon Lescott.
If rumours are to be believed, Manchester City were also prepared to splash out a further £40million for John Terry and whilst I can understand why some supporters would be reluctant to see him go, £40million is a shed-load of money for a centre-back. And it’s not as if we’d have to rush out and spend that on a replacement. We already have Carvalho, Alex and Ivanovic (who can play anywhere across the back four if you ignore his performance against Hull) and Michael Mancienne should be ready to step up to the first team if the club can resist the temptation to send him back out on loan when his latest spell is over. So realistically, that £40million would be money in the club’s back pocket.
Besides, with the age of our squad always the subject of much debate, as TheChelseaBlog pointed out earlier this year “If we’re looking at going through a transitional period, bringing in one or two new players maybe but using our younger players as much as possible, then £40million for a central defender who’s looked vulnerable to injury much more frequently over the past couple of seasons has to be a bloody good deal doesn’t it?”
THE CLUB
John Terry should really thank his lucky stars. I mean how many 29 year olds do you know who earn £135,000 a week doing something they love? Hard to imagine really isn’t it? Ok, so now imagine your employers looking after you from the age of fourteen and giving you the best medical care by the best surgeons in the world whenever you need it. And imagine those employers allowing you to make shitloads of money even when you’ve brought embarrassment on them with a few ‘personal errors of judgement’, in fact, better still, imagine they even help you out when you’re in a spot of bother – you’d have to feel a certain amount of loyalty in return wouldn’t you?
Hardly surprising JT took just 23 days to make his mind up to stay at Chelsea after Man City’s approach then is it? I mean, obviously he made the statement committing his future to the club at the earliest opportunity, or as soon as he’d spent a few sleepless nights weighing up whether the £5million signing on fee would ease the pain of missing out on playing in Europe for the foreseeable future anyway. And yet, instead of wondering whether ‘Mr Chelsea’ was showing a lack of respect or loyalty for the club and the supporters he’s always professed to love so much, the vast majority choose to believe he’d actually spent those 23 days keeping us waiting only because his commitment was so great that he needed all that time to carefully consider the words he would use to tell us there was never a possibility of him leaving and that this had nothing to do with him wanting a pay rise. Which is strange, because despite having three years left on his contract, we’ve just heard he’s signed himself a new five-year one worth significantly more. Is paying £150,000/£170,000 a week or whatever the true amount is now a viable financial option for Chelsea until John Terry is 34? Particularly given the rate he seems to pick up injuries these days anyway – I’d have to say it smacks of extravagance. To be honest though, I’m surprised he even needs the money, what with the amount he’s just saved himself on an agent who’s also been there for him for several years, sorting out all his major contracts and high-profile deals.
But hang on, I suppose it’s a bit unfair to suggest John Terry is anything but completely loyal, after all, how often have we seen him chasing down refs to make sure Chelsea get what he feels they deserve? Ok, so that might lead to questions about his lack of self-discipline, not to mention the poor role modeling which could in-turn lead to other players following suit and before you know it we’d be surrounding the officials - but heaven forbid that should ever happen anyway eh?
Of course I’m being flippant but that’s probably because I just don’t see John Terry having the same standing in the game he once did. I actually think he’s calmed down since the Mourinho days where our players’ lack of discipline on the pitch seemed to come from his example more often than not, although having said that, more recently he did see fit to publicly endorse Didier Drogba’s Champions League rant last season – not something the footballing world would have much in the way of admiration for.
What about the dressing-room though? Again, that would appear to be something else that goes without saying, he’s certainly popular in there, players look up to him don’t they? They respect his opinion don’t they? But what if his opinion comes at a price – is that still ok? For instance, we know Claude Makelele suggests the Mourinho departure came as a direct result of JT’s opinion – and I know there’s plenty of supporters out there who would regard Mourinho’s leaving as a high price to pay to keep any one player. And whilst Chelsea may have played down the bust-up between our captain and Henk Ten Cate, we were later told they did indeed have a barney on the eve of our Carling Cup final against Spurs – which of course ended in defeat – ok, it was only the Carling Cup but I certainly begrudge losing any game to Spurs.
Still, the club must’ve been entirely right to suggest “John Terry is a symbol of this team. He wants to stay forever and we want to keep him forever. For Terry there is no price. Terry will be at Chelsea forever.” He is indeed a symbol of Chelsea, he’s a fighter, a winner, completely loyal, the sort of captain who’ll always be there when his players need him, except…..
Look out for follow-up arguments to this debate on www.bridgeviews.co..uk and www.thechelseablog.org later this week. But what do you think? Happy to see our captain stay or want to see the back of him? Post a comment.
Filed under: Current Players, Rants
Yes, in financial term, the club should have sold Terry.
Basically, the whole argument supporting the sale of Terry would be:
Money
Injury
Age
However, we need money coming from good operation of club, instead of selling of star players. Building a larger stadium could have easily earned multiples of that amount of money, if Abramovich is patient enough.
Furthermore, the loss of Terry could result in a disturbance in the dressing room, which saw Scolari losing his job last season.
In terms of injury, Terry might be bad in this area. However, we have seen him too many times returning from serious injury within a month or even just a few days. Furthermore, injuries are usually caused by Terry risking his body for that extra point on the league table. Hence we should not sell him because of his injury.
Age. Well, Paolo Maldini is a good example. See how Gattuso faltered without his guidance. (Remember Gattuso stopped by Paolo when he shouted at Stankovic?) Terry is just gonna be better in terms of experience and mental capabilities. Furthermore, Chelsea is a physical team, players at chelsea could enjoy a career life longer than other players because they are physically fit. (Check out the miles they ran in every match)
Glory is what Abramovich is seeking, not money. Hence I believe Terry should not be sold.
P.S. I personally believe the club has done well in this summer.
Zhirkov is cheap for his class.
RT and DS are for the future, and they are promising too.
It is best not to spend much this summer while Madrid is forcing the price to rise.
But again, Chelsea never benefits in supermarket events like Juventus, Newcastle and Madrid. Pity.
Good article, but to me it all depends upon Roman.
Would having another £40m (and £150k a week) mean that we would spend it by strenghtening the team? I actually doubt that funds are the reason why we have not made the big signing.
Normally there is a cash/quality argument, but if money (or to be more precise Roman’s money) is not the deciding factor then its down to quality. Are we a better team/club with JT or without. My choice would still be to say we are better with him.
ChelseaD I think it is funny that this question is raised specifically sighting Terry.
Why not write an article on selling our aged interests to gain money and focus the article on lost chances like Carvalho, Deco, Ashley Cole, and Terry. All with interest, age and opportunity.
You did not write that because you know the team does not have an issue with money, or with budget.
I think the issue is that nobody wants to come to us for some reason.
Bad press, bad player relations especially with Deco and Carvalho in the press.
Their were tonnes of marquee players who admitted they were approached by Chelsea; Pato, Pirlo, Ribery Aguera. They all said they were not interested in Chelsea.
As well the teams said no and with reports of big, big money. Even teams that need the cash AC Milan and Athletico Madrid There is something about Chelsea right now.
So to focus on Terry is not about age, ability or opportunity. I think it is bitterness toward the specific player.
I do think it is interesting that you focused on the 23 days. Wow I am sorry he hurt your inner child because he did not come and sing Blue is the color and put a Chelsea forever tattoo on his ass as soon as the story broke.
He may have from day one committed to the team as the upper management said he did, but I guess by not believing them you are saying that you do not trust the team.
Lampard said he almost went last year, Drogba came and said he wanted to leave and yet you do not crucify them. End the hatred enjoy the wins and let us hope we have enough for a title.
The bigger story is here is why it is so bad playing at Standford Bridge that others do not want the opportunity
Blueblood - So I haven’t crucified Drogba in the past for constantly saying he wanted to leave? You having a laugh? And did I ignore Lampard’s silence last year when the media circus was going on? Again, I don’t believe I did. Its not about any of them wanting to leave though because tbh, if any player wants out enough then we’re obviously better off letting them go anyway. I’d just rather our players were honest about it and admitted they’d given it some thought.
I was totally pissed off with Lampard’s silence that ended in him getting a better deal. Having said that though, he’s earnt every penny since AND admitted he thought about going and I respect his honesty.
Drogba - well, he’ll always be Drogba.
With JT, I just think he had to have thought about the money City were offering - he’d have to be nuts not to - so why not just say that - say he considered it and decided to stay anyway? No big deal.
ChelseaD good response on your opinion. I respect it.
Let it go now is my point, you basically just re-did your opinion from yesterday and it was like you want Terry to come on and get on his knees for your forgiveness.
What he did was not as harmful as Deco or Carvalho this year. Second my point on Lampard and Drogba is if this is your reason to sell you should have used them now if it was about needing money. I do not care if you were upset last year.
What I want to know is how come you have not asked why no big names want to come to Chelsea. It is not that they do not have the money, you would be foolish if that is what it is.
My theories are, Roman wants to feel like he got a deal. If a team says 50 million for a Kaka or Ribery he can not just get the player he has to be able to say he won.He will only offer 45 million or 30 and Boswagnia. This attitude does not work for teams with marquee players. Real Madrid, Barca and Man City know how to do it “Make them an offer they can’t refuse.”
Theory two, Players here (Deco and Carvalho) and ex-players and ex-mangers complaining to much about the team management and owner are making this a black balled team. Maybe it is true or not but the press runs with it and the Blogs back it up and now it seems real. This means the old method of under cutting the team by talking up the player until they force the move doesn’t work. This is how we achieved earlier signings that you mentioned and goes back to theory one.
We need our big players telling how this is the best club and be part of the recruiting and the owner needs to stop dickering. Players are like cars if you want a middle of the line slightly used car you negotiate. You want a high end Porsche or Ferrari then you just go in and pay for it.
I do not care if you hate Terry we have heard that over and over again. He will help this team now and for the next year or two. I know it sucks having the UEFA defender of the year and England team captain but lets struggle through.
What should scare us all is that in three years we will be sitting around like Liverpool fans talking history and remembering when we used to win trophies as we slowly fall to mediocrity. This is what I want to here about from you and the other Chelsea fans. This is the message the team needs to here
This mythical “23 days” is the amount of time between a Man City concocted rumour getting to the press and a public statement from him. Kenyon spoke to JT on holiday the day of Chelsea’s public statement and what he said wwas reported in some papers by midday. JT himself had further talks with Chelsea when he returned and his stance was made clear to the club - the same as in February, that he’d be staying. The rest of the time was the Mirror and Jason Burt asking for a further statement. There was neither need nor motivation to repeat what everyone at the club already knew. On the US tour all the other players were clear in everything they said publicly that there was nothing in it according to their own private conversations. It was actually quite funny watching the press wrong their hands on a daily basis. We strung them along pretty well as it turned out, causing City to delay their final decision for a long while too. I have absolutely no idea why anyone would chose to be strung along in the same way.
Similarly, Drogba has been saying he was definitely going to stay for 18 months solid (whether the club were sure about wanting that is another matter). Frank was played pretty well and backed into a corner so he had nowhere else to turn but to re-sign.
All these have been fantastic Chelsea re-signings and have pretty much guaranteed some form of success this season. The repeated doubtings on this blog are tiresome to say the least, most of all because of the lack of perspective and any insight into the best interests of the club. Who raised this question after all? No-one but the author. No other Chelsea supporter I know thinks this issue is anything other than a complete non-starter.
Chelsea D I am completley with LB on this one. Why don’t you focus on the positives that surround us this season. The continued barracking of JT and the delay in coming out and saying something has been dealt with and put to bed by virtually everybody. So why do you continue to ramble on about it.
Answer me one question, When it comes to a Saturday do you applaud JT as he leads the team out on the pitch and sing his name with the rest of the fans, or do you sit down in the stand holding a grudge as that the way you come across?
JT is Chelsea, he has revealed the reason for his silence, and if he gets a new deal out of it fair play. Besides under Ancelotti (who has a reputation for his players to be the fittest around) I don’t see JT having injury problems this season.
You say he is not the same player as he was before I mean seriously how can you say that? What if he leads Chelsea to silverware this season and the world cup at the end of the year? Will you publish a post apologising to ALL Chelsea fans and to JT himself for the continued posting about doubting ours and Englands captain?
Its no wonder he has come out and said he was disappointed with some fans’ reaction and doubts. What next? A dig as Ashley Cole’s new deal?
Seriously!, and I think I speak for most fans. Put it to bed now and concentrate on our good start to the season and get behind JT like the rest of us.
I for one always will be and have gone on record on my site to say so.
LB/Chelseadaft - I don’t think you do speak for all Chelsea supporters at all. You certainly don’t speak for me and I’ve spoken to plenty of others who couldn’t understand why the first time City came in for Terry he immediately said there was no chance of him leaving and yet this time around dragged his feet over a statement that would have ended weeks of speculation. If you honestly believe he never gave the offer a second thought then I’d have to say you’re kidding yourselves. It was a ridiculous amount of money and he’s human - he’d have to have at least considered it to a degree.
Chelseadaft - JT revealed the reason for his silence? You really bought that he was waiting to make sure his mates were going to get new deals? Oh come on, isnt that a bit lame?
As for me apologising if Chelsea win silverware this season, no of course I won’t. Firstly, it would be the TEAM who win the silverware, not any one individual and secondly, he’d be leading us out because that’s the job he’s been privileged enough to have been given. I’m not really interested what he does for England - I don’t see any relevance to Chelsea there.
For me, JT isnt the player or the legend he once was - just a personal opinion. If he responds to the summer and his new deal in the same way Lampard did last year then I’ll respond to that in exactly the same way I did then - by holding my hands up and acknowledging the club made entirely the right decision and that its been to Chelsea’s benefit. Time will tell.
Some really good debate here and strong points all round - on the face of it it just shows that this is a very sensitive issue for Chelsea fans.
One thing is clear - all those that are ‘not getting behind their captain’ are for me only doing so because they rate the man so highly: otherwise his reticence to commit to the club wouldn’t have caused so much offence.
In my opinion though I do think that some of the criticism of the article here is a little unjust - think this article was a very fair look at the arguments for selling Terry (hopefully you’ll agree that my article on http://www.bridgeviews.co.uk looking at the other side of the debate was ‘fair’ too).
Yes, we should support our side and be positive. But we’re all paying fans and are entitled to our concerns and worries (got into a big argument with another supporter in the MHL last December for daring to criticse Scolari, so I have a BIG track record). It doesn’t mean we’re behind the team any less…
Chelsea D. I am saying that we were all wondering about the silence and once he made his statement that was good enough for me and for most Chelsea fans. I think if you canvassed opinion around fans you will find that most people were more relieved that he re-affirmed his commitment to Chelsea than anything else.
My point is that why continue to drag this out over again? There is no point!
I know its a TEAM that wins silverware and JT is part of it, but he is a vital part of it, the soul of it and Chelsea without him would not be the same. Sorry but it wouldn’t.
My personal opinion is that he IS World Class and time will tell come the end of the season.
Great so mostly we value Terry but some do not. We beat this to death enough already.
LB - This blog is great because ChelseaD is one of the fans that will only be positive on a season where there is at least 4 pieces of silver. That challenges those who are entirely optimistic about everything. One good game and we have the second coming of Deco type against winner UEFA defender of the year and is on a downward spiral.
Chelseadaft, I hope you are wrong about the team falling apart if Terry is not there, he is a strong piece to this team but if you’re right then one injury latter were doomed. Hopefully his effect and the others are they make wining easier but without one or two were still capable of winning
I just wanted to hear some thoughts on the transfer window that were real and not a hidden article about Terry. I wanted some opinions. Two years ago Ferguson said Chelsea would not win the title as the team was to old. This is the same team just older. I do not think it can’t win now but we are only a year or two from him being correct.
I thought I had earlier put up some challenging questions but obviously not…comments?
Blueblood - I don’t expect or even particularly want 4 pieces of silver a season. If I was in this for the glory, it wouldn’t have been Chelsea I’d followed all them years ago.
You’re right though, you did put up some challenging questions and you could always write an article for posting on here if you want to debate them - failing that, I’ll have a bash at putting something together in response.
Chelseadaft - We managed without JT quite a bit the season before last and we’ll certainly have to hope we can manage without him again because he will retire eventually.
Russell - thanks for that. Daring to question a player with Terry’s sort of standing at Chelsea will always be a contentious issue but I’ve never shied away from a bit of controversy.
I’m one of our biggest supporters but probably also one of our biggest critcs, lol. And whether others agree with me or not, I’ll always say it how I see it.
Cheers again for your side of the debate.